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The ShootForum hearing protection test

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Re: The ShootForum hearing protection test

Postby Wireless » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:04 pm

Interesting that the consensus amongst the more knowledgable shooters seems to determine that there's no real way of testing these devices in a practical sense. I have some concerns about that.

I am a Member of the Shropshire Deaf Children's Society (SDCS), National Deaf Children's Society (NDCS), and have lapsed Membership of the RNID; I have many years experience with deafness, and deaf related issues even though I have normal hearing, and have previously held the offices of Chairman and Secretary of the SDCS.

My wife was born Profoundly Deaf, and within the last five years has received bi-lateral Cochlear Implants, but previously wore bi-lateral Behind the Ear (BTE) Hearing Aids, firstly in Analogue, then Semi-Digital, and Fully Digital forms over the years; in addition, my 21 year old son is also Profoundly Deaf and wears bi-lateral BTE Digital Hearing Aids.

I would suggest that proper testing of such devices could be tested using a purpose built sound field system, although I would have to talk with the latest Technical Officer thats been appointed within the local Sensory Inclusion Service and see what is possible.

My initial thoughts are that an experienced shooter may not even be aware that they have damaged hearing, and that the practical testers used to create this article could fall into this category, therefore putting into question the validity of the testing. I would suggest that they should all have had a hearing test before undertaking any practical testing role. Initially this might be in the form of the Hearing Check provided the RNID, which can take place either online or on the telephone.

The Hearing Check is explained here

http://www.actiononhearingloss.org.uk/y ... check.aspx

If you fail you'll be advised to visit a Hearing Assessment Clinic to see an Audiological Consultant.

In addition, I would initially suggest that the Puretone CENS Digital product is way over priced for what it actually is, you can get the latest technology hearing aids for an equivalent price, and without the expensive amplification technology used in hearing aids (after all you're not deaf), I would suggest that a more reasonable retail price for the Puretone would have been around a third of those quoted, giving them a healthy profit at that.

Interestingly, the standard BTE Hearing Aid includes as standard a hearing protection circuit that switches off the electronics as soon as a loud noise is detected, this is also active for millisecond bursts of sound, and is designed to protect the residual hearing of the hearing aid wearer; doubly important when you consider these sounds are going to be amplified by the Hearing Aid. Its the technology behind all the active bin systems used in shooting, so if you can detect such small bursts of sound energy in a basic hearing protection circuit, you can measure it.

Another issue not addressed is maintenance of the Puretone devices, all BTE hearing aid wearers need new ear moulds created frequently due to material degradation and in the case of people still growing up, because they become too small. An Adult wearer would probably need them changed every six months, and this ranges from six weeks for babies toddlers, to a couple of months or so for sub-teens. Teenagers would require these replaced every six months minimum. This is more obvious with amplified systems because the gaps around the ear mould produce feedback that a hearing person can hear (the feedback whistling is the indication that new ear moulds are required, or indeed that new ear moulds that have been received aren't the right size), you won't get this tell tale feedback from the Puretone devices, so how would you know that you have adequate hearing protection, even from a new device and ear moulds?

Another issue would be condensation, BTE wearers use clear plastic acoustic tubing to connect the ear mould to the BTE Hearing Aid, as with any living thing, moisture is generated within the ear canal, and this is sometimes evident within the acoustic tubing, and maintenance is usually to disconnect this tubing and blow the condensed water out of the tubing. With this in-the-ear (ITE) Puretone device, what protection does it have to prevent moisture entering the electronics through the speaker system, and condensing in there? How long is the warranty, and what does it cover? These are the questions I'd be asking.

In short, a good report, but I would suggest it could be improved upon, and I'd suggest that the ShootingForum might be able to enter into some sort of agreement with relevant organisations to properly address the issue of hearing protection, and the testing of products.

Hope any of that helps.
Last edited by Wireless on Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The ShootForum hearing protection test

Postby flintlok » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:24 pm

In industry it's been found that personal hearing protect never performs ideally and often below it's rated protection. It's better than wearing nothing and even still when worn improperly, which is often the case, it does offer a degree of protection. I prefer engineering controls if at all possible.
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Re: The ShootForum hearing protection test

Postby Viperteks » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:31 pm

I have the Original Peltor Protac, they are still superb, 10 years old and they have had alot of rough treatment, I have a spare pair of cheaper electronic muffs, 2 pairs of normal can, 2 sets of sonic ear plugs, and thats it!

For prolonged heavy calibre or shotgun use, I would ONLY wear full cans!



Wireless, that's a hell of a lot of detail there, thanks.

Guy in the local Pub is deaf, I try and pick up some more 'BSL' every time I see him, especially the 'swear words' :thup:

Most deaf people I met always wore the disguised flesh coloured aids, this guys were bright orange, which IMHO is better, as you NOTICE them, so I can talk more clearly and slow down my scouse speech 'rate'' ,so he can lip-read. The othe trick is not to nod while speaking (another Scouse habit) so he can focus on 'me gob', properly!!!

Cheers

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Re: The ShootForum hearing protection test

Postby Tommo » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:06 pm

Great write-up Kev.. Always wanted a pair of Peltors after borrowing a pair at Minsterley but, on my last US trip, I bought a set of Radians and I have to say they are as good. And they only cost me around $70.00.

Ear muffs - http://www.radians.com/main/p-17-radian ... mp-23.aspx

And I bought these coz they were cheap.. (I think I paid $18.00 for them) but boy, do they work..!! And really comfortable when shooting clays as they don't preclude you from wearing a hat.. :thup:

http://www.radians.com/main/p-40-radian ... th-19.aspx

The only fault with the digital muffs is that the On/Off/Volume switches are not marked in any way so it's easy to leave them turned on and, of course, drain the batteries. I fixed this with a dab of Tipex on each side. When they line up I know the muffs are off.. :grin:
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Re: The ShootForum hearing protection test

Postby Wireless » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:24 pm

Viperteks wrote:Wireless, that's a hell of a lot of detail there, thanks.

Guy in the local Pub is deaf, I try and pick up some more 'BSL' every time I see him, especially the 'swear words' :thup:

Most deaf people I met always wore the disguised flesh coloured aids, this guys were bright orange, which IMHO is better, as you NOTICE them, so I can talk more clearly and slow down my scouse speech 'rate'' ,so he can lip-read. The othe trick is not to nod while speaking (another Scouse habit) so he can focus on 'me gob', properly!!!


Not a problem, its just I was concerned about the 'fit and forget' conclusion in the report, so felt I needed to share information not readily available, but on balance, I felt the report was a good one.

None of my family uses BSL, they have been educated using natural auralism, and have had Hearing Aids fitted as young children (my lad had them at 5 months old), to enable them to use their residual hearing and learn to speak at the age that everyone learns to speak. They use lip reading to support this, but you'd be surprised, there is no real need to speak deliberately slowly, some might think that offensive, best to carry on as normal, if anyone fails to understand they will let you know. The wife is actually quite useful in a noisy party, telling me who is having an affair with who by lip reading people the other side of the room.

Most deaf people can lip read people in profile rather than face on, although being careful to avoid standing at a window indoors, or with sunlight behind is courteous, as this puts you in silhouette (they can't see what you're saying), although you'll find that deaf people naturally position themselves to lip read with you, the subject, in the best light.

Some deaf people wish to announce to the World that they are deaf, others, like my wife and son would rather interact normally, and wear the flesh coloured Hearing Aids, and I must say that although you might find that brightly coloured Hearing Aids useful to 'paint' the disability, and make a quite honest and I believe genuine comment to that effect, it is actually bordering on being offensive to others, especially the deaf, or hard of hearing.

As an example, I've just read out your written comment regarding brightly coloured aids to my wife to ask her what she thought; and she replied, 'what an ignorant ****' (well it made me chuckle), so you can see that adopting a specific approach that suits yourself is not necessarily acceptable. I'd suggest, and please forgive the obvious pun, that you'd be better to play things by ear...

I thought the Napier Pro 9's or possibly the Pro 10s were about the best buy, they work, are dirt cheap, practicable, no batteries, and easy to store about your person, and don't get in the way. In fact the Pro 9s and Pro 10s are cheap enough to buy both, one for low calibre's, one for shotgun and high calibre. However, thats just me being cheap, I do think the Peltor X Tac seemed possibly a better buy for game hunting.

I'd deliberately avoid the Puretones, on cost, questionable effectiveness/reliability/longevity, and possibly warranty issues, and they are tiny/easy to lose, BTW 8 hours battery life is pathetic for a device which doesn't have a battery hungry amplifier, for example my wife's hearing aid batteries over five years ago used to last between five and seven days when worn continuously from getting out of bed in the morning to taking them off to go to sleep at night, and she wore the most powerful BTE Hearing Aids available.
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Re: The ShootForum hearing protection test

Postby Viperteks » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:29 pm

Not Speaking deliberately slowly, have you ever heard a Scouser in 'full tilt', in the pub after half a dozens JD's :grin:

As for the bright orange aids, I think they may have been a fashion statement as much as anything else! I am rather 'in your face', but I asked him straight out, what could I do to help him understand me better, he also has his brother with him, who helps with the difficult bits. Also drinking in a busy Liverpool Pub, people may think 'he' was ignorant if he didn't hear someone asking to get by, which can quickly escalate, you will notice someone in a wheelchair, you won't necessarily notice someone wearing a hearing aid. When I worked the Doors that can make a difference in a tense situation!

I would like to think I have made a couple of new friends. :thup: :thup:

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Re: The ShootForum hearing protection test

Postby Beer Hunter » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:31 pm

Wireless wrote:I'd deliberately avoid the Puretones, on cost, questionable effectiveness/reliability/longevity, and possibly warranty issues, and they are tiny/easy to lose, BTW 8 hours battery life is pathetic for a device which doesn't have a battery hungry amplifier, for example my wife's hearing aid batteries over five years ago used to last between five and seven days when worn continuously from getting out of bed in the morning to taking them off to go to sleep at night, and she wore the most powerful BTE Hearing Aids available.

Thanks for contributing here and I bow to your superior knowledge on the subject :)

In defence of the puretone CENS, they have served me well since writing the article back in 2009. At 3 years old I've never felt the need to change the ear inserts - with them powered off, I'm all but deaf and in my unscientific view, it appears that is good enough for the purpose I use them for. They have been heavily used too - on average 4-5 times a week.
I do concede the point on battery life which could be better. Using them as I do, I'm looking at replacing the batteries once every 2 weeks. Thankfully, they are cheap when bought in bulk from http://www.battery-force.co.uk/.

These things are expensive, but all similar products on the market are about the same price. If you think you can make a superior product and market it for about half the price you should really look into it - you would make a killing!

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Re: The ShootForum hearing protection test

Postby Wireless » Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:25 am

If you're happy with them and they're performed well for you then maybe the battery issue is a minor one, but I'd definitely recommend having replacement ear moulds after 3 years.

Do they recommend replacement after a certain period? As you're no doubt aware things don't last forever, and they must have a disclaimer for material degradation after a certain period otherwise they'd be left open to claims.
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Re: The ShootForum hearing protection test

Postby Beer Hunter » Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:33 am

Wireless wrote:If you're happy with them and they're performed well for you then maybe the battery issue is a minor one, but I'd definitely recommend having replacement ear moulds after 3 years.

Do they recommend replacement after a certain period? As you're no doubt aware things don't last forever, and they must have a disclaimer for material degradation after a certain period otherwise they'd be left open to claims.

Well, nothing came with the product. Without being turned on, they are quieter than standard plugs or Napier Pro's, so I "think" they still fit me fine..... but now you have me thinking. Replacement moulds will be cheap though....

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Re: The ShootForum hearing protection test

Postby LPadilla34 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:09 am

I know this is an old thread but this really caught my eye. I was planning on buying new earmuffs because my old pair just broke this weekend.I only use the muffs to double down. As someone from above says that the NRR for earplugs aren't really that accurate. I use these plugs under my muffs and they're pretty good and comfy.
https://www.bigearinc.com/products/best ... -shooting/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDm47bA9oEA&t=27s
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